Black, Sober, and Still Not Believed: Stories from the Frontlines
Why Can’t We Talk About Race in Recovery Spaces? In this powerful and unfiltered live episode of the Soberness Podcast, we brought the community together at the historic Algonquin Hotel to unpack what it means to heal while Black in a system built without us in mind.
Hosted by Cat Greenleaf, this panel features:
Exit Fame – Rapper, recovery mentor, and survivor, sharing his raw journey from addiction and incarceration to purpose and peace.
Chris Marshall – Founder of Sans Bar in Austin, TX, talking about creating safe, sober spaces and navigating sobriety as a Black man in a party city.
Ola Ojewumi – Health and disability justice advocate whose double-organ transplant and lived experience with medical racism lit a fire under her activism.
This episode of Soberness is sponsored by Seraphim Social Beverage. A one-of-a-kind premium non-alcoholic red blend, crafted with 100% pure botanicals, chosen not only for flavor but function. Visit seraphimsocialbev.com/ to shop and/or find a retailer near you that stocks these award-winning blends.
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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:12
Speaker 1
I had came back and I seen him and he, you know, he looked kind of crazy. And I was telling him I was like, I hope you didn't mess with those pills, because this is when the, fentanyl was first coming out in the pills. And I knew, you know what I mean? How crazy that was. Unfortunately, I left, and I came back, and I found my father dead.
00:00:16:14 - 00:00:37:11
Speaker 2
The belief that because I am black, because I am a woman, that I would risk my health and everything that was sacrificed for me. Someone had to die for me to live. Why on earth would I abuse drugs if I knew it would have such detrimental effects?
00:00:37:21 - 00:00:40:00
Speaker 3
I kind of like being black.
00:00:40:00 - 00:00:46:17
Speaker 3
I kind of like being black. I can lie, I mean, like, I kind of like being black. I kind of like. Like, if I had to do it all over again, I'd
00:00:46:17 - 00:00:47:10
Speaker 3
still be black.
00:00:47:10 - 00:01:01:20
Unknown
I.
00:01:06:21 - 00:01:21:17
Unknown
Very.
00:01:21:17 - 00:01:30:02
Unknown
had.
00:01:30:04 - 00:01:31:16
Unknown
Have done.
00:01:31:16 - 00:01:45:08
Speaker 1
welcome to the second ever Soberness Story Hour. Live at the Algonquin. Hey, our biggest thanks of the night has to go to the Algonquin. Will is Jefferson O. And all the wait staff
00:01:45:08 - 00:01:54:08
Speaker 1
They given this hotel a sovereign. This is headquarters. And because of them, we exist. So thank you guys.
00:01:54:10 - 00:02:02:13
Speaker 1
And when you see our awesome waitstaff going by. Don't be shy. Order food. Order drinks. Alcoholic or not, we don't judge
00:02:02:13 - 00:02:12:02
Speaker 1
go right ahead and if you are drinking mocktails, I have two suggestions for you. One is the Algonquin Signature Summer mocktail.
00:02:12:02 - 00:02:37:08
Speaker 1
It's called Lulu's Summer splash. I had it last night. Delish. And of course, our favorite nonalcoholic drink, Seraphim Social Beverage, brought to you by our beloved sponsor, Stephanie in the got all the best stuff that we love about wine. The taste, the feel, the smell and none of the stuff we hate like the hangover and the apologies we have to make to our friends in the morning.
00:02:37:08 - 00:02:37:13
Speaker 1
We.
00:02:37:13 - 00:02:44:21
Speaker 1
So why are we here tonight? Before I introduce the panel I want to give you a little bit of background.
00:02:45:00 - 00:03:08:04
Speaker 1
I am a white lady. And. Wait, wait, lady. And I got sober as a white lady. And it is the experience I know. But we know that alcoholism and addiction and disease doesn't see color. It doesn't care at all. But what I'm learning now is that access to care and treatment does seem to have a bias.
00:03:08:04 - 00:03:36:07
Speaker 1
So tonight I'm here as a student, and I am so grateful to everyone who has come here as teachers. After the panel, I'm hoping you can open it out. Everyone can share your own stories or questions for the panel, and I want us to leave here with some actionable steps, things that we can all do to make sure that access to care and treatment, is, as people opportunity as disease and addiction.
00:03:36:12 - 00:03:55:12
Speaker 1
So it came about because in January, I was interviewing Chris Marshall at the Mindful Drinking Fest, and he was telling me a story about an a meeting he had in his hometown of Austin, Texas. And when it was finished, he walked into the parking lot where somebody said,
00:03:55:16 - 00:04:03:12
Speaker 2
They said, and I called. Boy raises an outside issue. We don't talk about that.
00:04:03:13 - 00:04:25:00
Speaker 1
If race is an outside issue, we don't talk about that. How is somebody supposed to recover? Chris told me that he still goes to meetings, but he doesn't bring his whole heart. And anyone who's been to recovery knows, if you don't bring your whole heart to this whole hearted effort, it's not going to work well. And I told that story to another friend is in the room tonight, Mr. Bond, Sam Thompson.
00:04:25:02 - 00:04:49:16
Speaker 1
And he said something that I'm going to read because I don't want to miss it. He said cat white addicts are treated like patients with a disease. Well, black addicts are treated as criminals who threaten the safety and plummet the value of society. So that left me as a white lady with a broken heart and really was a mirror to me once again of how little I understood.
00:04:49:18 - 00:05:10:12
Speaker 1
So that's how it came to be. We're so grateful everybody's come out that you've all come out to have this discussion in this conversation. So our panel consists of you, Mr.. Chris Marshall, who, has been alcohol free since 2007, became a counselor in 2009 and has since opened up the Sans Bar, which is an alcohol
00:05:10:12 - 00:05:32:13
Speaker 1
The whole free bar in Austin, Texas. And they say, yes, and you have to come check you out there. They serve so much more than mocktails. They really serve up a community. And there's, Sons University, right? Is that what it's called? He teaches people how to get going in their own businesses, their non-alcohol businesses. It's a pretty special thing.
00:05:32:19 - 00:05:43:12
Speaker 1
Then we have Eric exit fame, a sober mentor, a rapper. You've been sober almost six years.
00:05:43:14 - 00:05:45:13
Speaker 2
God willing. August. August 30th.
00:05:45:13 - 00:06:11:10
Speaker 1
That's right. Is right. And exit uses his music not just to entertain, but to catch people who are still caught up in the cycle. And that makes you a very powerful messenger. So grateful that you're here. Thank you. And then we have Miss Ola OJ with me. She is a fierce health advocate shining a light on disparity of care for people of color.
00:06:11:12 - 00:06:40:20
Speaker 1
She was born with several health challenges and by the age of 12 had survived a heart and a kidney transplant. So out of that, she built a platform and is using it to talk about what she sees is going wrong in health and health care today in our country and around the world. Welcome. So that's it. Let's get going.
00:06:40:22 - 00:06:58:18
Speaker 1
Each one of you is a star in your own right. But it's the way you have chosen to shine your light for the greater good. That really got me when I learned each of your stories. But we want to know the back story. What happened that brought you to this place in your life, in your career? That this is now what you're doing?
00:06:58:20 - 00:07:16:07
Speaker 3
Yeah. I had my first drink at 16. I felt like that was the only way I could connect with other people. So, especially being, kid in the suburbs, one of only few black kids. I felt like drinking was the way to connect to people and feel a part of community. So, I drank and immediately struggled with it.
00:07:16:10 - 00:07:34:18
Speaker 3
Immediately. It wasn't even a good, good first time. It was all bad, you know? But I kept drinking because I felt like that was connection. Stopped drinking at 23 and had to figure out what I was gonna do with the rest of my life. Became a counselor. Counseling led me to open up sans bar. So that's how I got here.
00:07:34:20 - 00:07:38:08
Speaker 1
What was it like getting sober in Austin, Texas?
00:07:38:10 - 00:08:03:06
Speaker 3
Hot. It was it was challenging because Austin's a party. City is a place where people go to, like, socialize, go to bachelorette parties. That's for people they think of like a place to kind of like, go wild. And so it's hard to be, someone who's not drinking in a space that's obsessed with drinking. And that's that was the main challenge, I think, you know, being a young person and being in recovery.
00:08:03:08 - 00:08:05:22
Speaker 1
Okay. Thanks. How about you?
00:08:06:00 - 00:08:25:21
Speaker 2
So my name is Eric. Artist X of Fame. I am an alcoholic. I'm a man of recovery, and most importantly, a child of God. I am from Boston, Massachusetts. And what brought me to this point? Sitting in front of you lovely people, which I believe everybody in this room is familiar with, hopefully is the, gift of desperation.
00:08:25:23 - 00:08:58:05
Speaker 2
And the gift of desperation came to me in 2019. During the doing the work that I do, I suffer from a phenomenon of craving, as the book teaches me. And I think I had this disease of alcoholism and addiction far before I ever drink or smoke crack or sniff dope or anything like that. But, those behaviors and just being a follower and just that empty void that I had as a child, I grew up in just to that, and I always tried to fill it, whether it was being somebody I'm not.
00:08:58:05 - 00:09:27:02
Speaker 2
And that led me to a whole bunch of, poor choices. Unfortunately, 17 years of my life was in prison. I lost my father in this process by bringing drugs into the household. And, I found him dead. And that guilt, I would looking back on it now, in retrospect, I would say that it kind of amplified my disease to the point that, I really wanted to feel different because guilt and shame and remorse was eating me alive.
00:09:27:02 - 00:09:47:10
Speaker 2
And, you know, and like, in all my stories and podcasts, just to make a long story short, I always say the BMA turned to a rental. The rental turned into a, a bus pass. And before you know it, I'm sneaking on the train. And that was a digression of where it brought me to. And, man, you know, I met the devil face to face, you know?
00:09:47:10 - 00:10:10:22
Speaker 2
And, bunch of bad choices, poor thought, poor decisions, crack houses and jails and all that kind of stuff being shot numerous times in this process and, and thank God for praying, mom. And thank God for God, you know, because it was always there for me. And back then I would look at prison, in jail and detoxes and programs almost like a punishment.
00:10:10:22 - 00:10:35:08
Speaker 2
But they were a rescue mission. And and it took me a few times to get it. But the, like I said, back to the gift of desperation, I surrendered in 2019. It wasn't easy, man. And, I made some choices and I just started taking suggestions. And before you know, it, I put together, like, three months and then three turned to six and 3 to 6 turned to nine.
00:10:35:08 - 00:10:53:05
Speaker 2
And and it felt good again. And I was getting back in my, my family's life and my children. And then my dream came back to me. And I never thought I'd be doing the things that I was doing on my stories long. Like all of this, I'm not going to eat. I'm going to share the time. But that's what brought me here was just a bunch of bad choices.
00:10:53:05 - 00:11:04:16
Speaker 2
And, God used my mess to make a message in the testimony is what we're here to do. Step 12 is pull somebody else out the hole. So that's what this is all about. Just sharing the story.
00:11:04:18 - 00:11:10:05
Speaker 1
Thank you so much.
00:11:10:07 - 00:11:12:08
Speaker 1
Ola.
00:11:12:10 - 00:11:39:07
Speaker 4
So once again, my name is Ola and I work in the disability advocacy space, specifically disability justice and a part of disability justice, intersectionality, and including people with substance abuse disorder in the disability rights movement because it is a disability, it is a valid disease. It is a mental health issue. And so how I began in the disability rights space started in 2002.
00:11:39:09 - 00:11:51:02
Speaker 4
I was a smooth 11 years old and I got the call. You guys are going to laugh. I got the you guys remember AOL?
00:11:51:04 - 00:12:14:12
Speaker 4
So I was on the heart transplant waiting list, and I was about to get on line and check my needle pit. And so when you get on AOL, you if you only have one phone line, you know, you can't get any calls through. So luckily I hadn't gotten on neopets.com that morning, and we got the call that, they had a heart waiting for me in Pittsburgh Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh.
00:12:14:14 - 00:12:35:04
Speaker 4
And so they flew me on a Boeing jet from Ronald Reagan Airport in DC to Pittsburgh. And I was so young. I was so vapid. The one concern I had before I went under was asking the nurse, so there's this b2 k concert, December 31st, am I going to be able to get out the hospital by them?
00:12:35:06 - 00:12:56:04
Speaker 4
And the nurse didn't laugh. She said, it's a good question because most people want to know when they're going to get out the hospital. So, I'm, I am scared and I am about to go under. And it wasn't just a heart transplant. I ended up getting a kidney as well from the same donor. There was a lot of information kept from me because I was so young at the time.
00:12:56:06 - 00:13:15:22
Speaker 4
So during the first week of my recovery, my lung collapsed. I couldn't walk because I had nerve damage from my kidney in my right leg. So your kidney is in your back, but when they give you a kidney transplant, they put it right here in your abdomen, near your bladder.
00:13:15:22 - 00:13:22:17
Speaker 4
So I was going through all these health issues one week later and they cut off my pain medication.
00:13:22:19 - 00:13:49:00
Speaker 4
The doctors just told me, take Tylenol. And so I'm sitting there in the hospital looking confused. Like, so I had a heart transplant and a kidney transplant five hours apart. My lung collapsed. This part of my leg is numb, and the only thing you're offering me is Tylenol. And I was one of the few black kids, to be honest, the only black child on that cardiac floor.
00:13:49:02 - 00:14:07:00
Speaker 4
They didn't even bother to learn my name. They kept calling me double o, for my for my initials. Then they heard my mom call me Ola, and they put it in my little miracle chart so they could finally start calling me by my name. And that's when I learned that there were racial disparities.
00:14:07:00 - 00:14:10:07
Speaker 4
Here I am at 34 years old.
00:14:10:09 - 00:14:34:12
Speaker 4
Two years ago, I came to New York with my mom. I love my mom to death, and I went on a little vacation here and in, NYC. And I've been having heart palpitations for two weeks and I've been hiding in hospitals. Scare me, doctors scare me, and I just don't want to be there. And so we come home, I call my transplant team, my cardiac transplant team.
00:14:34:14 - 00:14:56:17
Speaker 4
They tell me to go ahead, go to the E.R.. We'll book you in. And I finally get a room, and you get updates on your phone, on my chart. And I see that they have actually done a drug test on me. So this is my transplant hospital. This is a hospital where my cardiologist is my kidney doctor is this is a transplant.
00:14:56:17 - 00:15:18:03
Speaker 4
This is a hospital where I got cancer treatment as as an adult. Because when you have a transplant, it kills your immune system and you can develop cancer. So I developed cancer in my 20s. This is where I literally got did my chemo was immunotherapy. And the first thought was to drug test me for help for heart palpitations.
00:15:18:03 - 00:15:38:22
Speaker 4
Even though I have a heart transplant, the belief that because I am black, because I am a woman, that I would risk my health and everything that was sacrificed for me. Someone had to die for me to live. The only thing I know about my donor is that I was 11 and she was 22, and she died in a car accident.
00:15:39:00 - 00:16:09:06
Speaker 4
Why on earth would I abuse drugs if I knew? Would have such detrimental effects? So that's when I became more involved in realizing, you know, disability is not just about medical conditions. You are born with accidents. You have things. You develop. The stigmatization and criminalization of people with substance abuse disorder impacts all of us, even those of us who don't abuse drugs.
00:16:09:10 - 00:16:30:10
Speaker 4
And that's why I'm here. We need to show a united front. We need to show that this illness doesn't have one face, one image or one identity. It's all of us involved.
00:16:30:12 - 00:16:43:16
Speaker 1
So all of that was a really clear explanation, actually, what we're talking about tonight for you to where did you see stigma of being black get in your way of getting. Well.
00:16:43:18 - 00:17:13:10
Speaker 2
I think just the, I was fortunate enough in this process to get enough sober time, recovery time and start working in the field. So currently I'm now on recovery coach and helping guys, Claire Warren. So get into treatment, get jobs, get housing. And during this journey, in this process, I've been in the field for about four years now working.
00:17:13:12 - 00:17:38:05
Speaker 2
I had the I have I've had the privilege of working in private facilities. Boston, as most know is a very it's a it's a very diverse place for, for a just period. You know, there's a lot of resources. I didn't know getting in treatment was so hard across the world, but in Boston and in just Massachusetts, like, you can leave detox today and then be in detox two days later.
00:17:38:05 - 00:18:07:05
Speaker 2
It's not like that everywhere. And I was new to this. And then seeing I've never just being just being real, I don't want to ever say that I really just personally because a lot of recovery was open to people and in Massachusetts, but there's different levels of care. And when I got on the other side and I got to see private the way that private insurance in the way that people are treated compared to a person we have, I don't know what states and you guys are from.
00:18:07:07 - 00:18:30:13
Speaker 2
We have masshealth. So that would probably be the lowest standard, like, you know, like the brown card or the bronze card, whatever you want to say. And if you have masshealth, there's certain things that you don't qualify for. There's certain places you can't go. And being in this field now, I've had situations where I've had, we don't say clients, participants.
00:18:30:19 - 00:18:49:02
Speaker 2
I've had participate since and they need a bed. And you guys know in that moment when it's like, I'm ready to go now, I'm ready to go to treatment right now. All. Let me get you a bed. That's my job. Get you a bed. Find it. This and that. This place is full. That place is full. This place is full.
00:18:49:04 - 00:19:08:11
Speaker 2
But there's always a bed open somewhere where they got Netflix and they get. They got private chefs and all this kind of stuff. But I can't get you in there because you got masshealth. And unfortunately, I mean, I don't want to say it's just a color thing in Massachusetts because it goes around because from white to black to Spanish, you know what I mean?
00:19:08:11 - 00:19:32:06
Speaker 2
We got people in poverty and you see people with low income that don't have those opportunities at a in those situations. So I've, I've encountered that, I've seen that. And. You get to a certain point being in recovery and you start working into it. Opportunities. No longer am I on that on that side, but opportunities for people to be employed.
00:19:32:08 - 00:19:44:20
Speaker 2
I've heard things like there's a ceiling in, you know what I mean? So this is a probably a lot more doors that I got to walk through, and I'll probably be exposed and see a lot more. But those have been my experiences thus far.
00:19:44:22 - 00:19:46:08
Speaker 1
Thank you.
00:19:46:10 - 00:20:14:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was a licensed, substance use counselor for eight years in Texas, and I saw much of the same things where, there just seemed to be a general consensus that, white patients got extra chances, you know, and it just seemed like there'd be very little threshold, for black and brown, patients. You just see it as simple as, like, you know, bringing substances into treatment, which is a hard.
00:20:14:04 - 00:20:32:16
Speaker 3
That's a hard. No, that's a discharge automatically. That'd be a lot of like, well, you know, maybe this person just having a hard time is a lot of like, excusing, you know, the behavior where or looking at, I mean, looking at the behavior is communication, right. And communicating that this person is just not a place at a place of readiness.
00:20:32:18 - 00:21:03:01
Speaker 3
Whereas if it was a black person who was like, yeah, yeah, that's a week. Yeah. Then you're out immediately. No. No explanation. The other thing I'll say is I worked in detox. And detox, is an interesting place to work. Mostly because people are in pain and, and again, not a medical professional, but I just notice that as a, as a counselor working with people, that when people of color would say that they're in pain, they're just would not be the same kind of attentiveness.
00:21:03:01 - 00:21:13:02
Speaker 3
Again, this is just my perspective working with them as a counselor. It just seemed like their playing, their pain wasn't as believed, if that makes sense. Oh, it does make sense.
00:21:13:04 - 00:21:25:03
Speaker 1
It does. And, you know, we're talking a lot about stigma outside the black community looking in. What's the stigma within for being an addict, for seeking treatment.
00:21:25:05 - 00:21:59:18
Speaker 2
Now that is a that is something. A perfect example is the emergency room. I think that's something that we can all relate to here. Emergency rooms in the winter time when it's really cold or it's raining, these are places that get frequented by people that are actively using a homeless. And because of. And I don't want to just blame doctors of hospitals either, but because of the fact that everything's understaffed, most people in these fields are in these positions, are underpaid.
00:21:59:20 - 00:22:19:08
Speaker 2
It's overwhelmingly, you know, it's overwhelmed. So if you're from a city, I can only imagine a hospital in New York that deals with that. You know, they probably got security outside with guns. You can't come in here. But, Boston City Hospital of BMC right there on massive mass and casts. That's kind of like our skid row or like Philadelphia Kensington.
00:22:19:10 - 00:22:43:09
Speaker 2
That's where it's at for us. And because of the fact that so many people come in here with these things or, and I go back to the weather conditions. Yeah. Some people might be using an excuse of I can't breathe my heart, my leg or whatever it is, you know, whatever excuse it is to be inside there to get shelter or be away from that.
00:22:43:11 - 00:23:14:06
Speaker 2
But then you got people that are actually going through stuff that come in the Nos emergency rooms. But because of the fact that there's so many people or a person to overdose, I don't know the exact numbers, but in that area you see ambulances going around 24 seven because there's so many people overdosing from the fentanyl crisis or what's going on, and somebody might get overlooked from treatment just because you came in and your coat got bird shit on it, or you're a little dirty part of my language, you know, just your appearance of the way that you look.
00:23:14:08 - 00:23:29:01
Speaker 2
You ain't in a serious situation. Put them in the emergency room. Just sit there and wait. But he might have something really going on. But because it's so much, we just automatically assume we automatically judge. So you see that a lot. That's a perfect example of it.
00:23:29:03 - 00:23:58:08
Speaker 4
You know, we call that ableism and prejudice against people with disabilities. And when I say intersectionality, it's literally the combination of disability and race. And that's not it's not limited to that. Intersectionality is not limited to that. It's multiple identities. And how these identities intersect and afford you a certain experience. So what he's saying is true. You know, there are people with addiction who are going into the E.R. and then there are those with chronic illnesses seeking treatment.
00:23:58:08 - 00:24:26:12
Speaker 4
And they are often, you know, stereotyped as drug seeking. And all of this is statistically proven by research. Black children who seek care, who who seek care with their parents in the emergency room for things like appendectomies, emergency appendectomy needs, get less pain medication and are less believed than white children. The data is there, but nothing is being done.
00:24:26:14 - 00:24:51:04
Speaker 4
I will say this growing up in the DC Maryland area, it's majority black and there are so many black colleges. So getting a black physician, are getting a black doctor is not as difficult as it would be in Boston. So my my experiences are very complex. When I go to my hospital is Johns Hopkins. When I go there, the racism is on Front Street.
00:24:51:06 - 00:25:22:07
Speaker 4
It's painful, but when it comes to private medical settings, private medical practices, it's a little different. Medical racism is very real, and I think there is compassion amongst varying people. But because of Baltimore and because people consider it the heroin and heroin capital of the world, I may be getting different treatment because I have oh my, like, medical history is longer than a CVS receipt.
00:25:22:09 - 00:25:26:17
Speaker 4
So.
00:25:26:19 - 00:25:51:02
Speaker 1
You know, back at Mindful Drinking Fest, we had our second interview with, Darryl McDaniel from run DMC, and he had a heartbreaking story for me as well that when, you know, as a rapper and as a black man in his neighborhood, he could not say, hey, I'm an addict and I need help. He said he was looked down upon for that and that kept him away from seeking treatment.
00:25:51:04 - 00:25:58:09
Speaker 1
And it was a long time until he could finally say it out loud and get the help he needed. Have you to run up against that?
00:25:58:11 - 00:26:22:03
Speaker 3
I think I got sober 18 years ago, and I think there was just a general stigma. First of all, black people aren't a monolith, just like no one else is. I want to say that that's that's just something to think about. But in my experience, especially growing up in the South, growing up largely country rural, we don't talk about mental health, we don't talk about substance use.
00:26:22:03 - 00:26:49:02
Speaker 3
So I think it has evolved a lot, especially with the opioid crisis and hitting rural places. We talk a little bit a lot more about substance use and mental health. But yeah, when I was a 23 year old kid, I was embarrassed to tell my grandpa, I was struggling with alcohol. I was I was embarrassed to tell my mama, that, I was drinking too much, you know, it was it was hard for me to say that, and, of course, I was met with love.
00:26:49:04 - 00:27:07:07
Speaker 3
Of course I was met with compassion. And of course, I was met with, with with prayer and concern and all the things that, any one else is. But I just believed that if I was to be honest about my substance use, I would be failing my family. I'd be failing a community that had done so much to support me.
00:27:07:09 - 00:27:13:10
Speaker 3
Right. And it just I just didn't want to let my let my family down.
00:27:13:11 - 00:27:18:11
Speaker 1
Why isn't mental health and addiction discussed?
00:27:18:13 - 00:27:43:02
Speaker 4
People associate mental health in this with weakness. I thought it's something that you can control. I'll speak from a different perspective. As someone who is first generation. So blackness is not, as he said, is not a monolith. There are so many cultures within a culture, within a culture. I my I'm West African, my people are Nigerian. Mental health know you need to just go to church.
00:27:43:04 - 00:28:05:16
Speaker 4
You need not even even regular health like even just pray it away. All you need is the Bible and all you need is God. And so I mean, and this has been reflected in how many research studies have been done in war torn countries on the continent, how the lack of psychiatric care and the PTSD and the depression.
00:28:05:16 - 00:28:30:23
Speaker 4
A lot of, you know, people who were involved in warfare experience and studying psychology is not something valued. You came to America, your parents came and sacrificed all this stuff. You'll be a doctor, an engineer, a nurse are a disgrace to the family. Talk about psychology. What's so how do I say this? Mental health and mental illness is seen as a failure, are failing.
00:28:31:05 - 00:28:55:10
Speaker 4
And I think we have to examine ableism. It's just like racism. But towards people with disabilities, racism and ableism are connected. I often talk about eugenics and how disabled women were sterilized. Read the book versus now Supreme Court decision, which is still on the books. You know, this is something that is supposed to be eliminated.
00:28:55:12 - 00:29:11:22
Speaker 4
You don't want to be a part of that other group that people believe should not exist, that are weaker, that are the sub, even Darwin, Darwinism, survival of the fittest. You don't want to be among that part isn't fit to people.
00:29:11:23 - 00:29:18:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Thank you. That's, And again, heartbreaking. These stories are freaking heartbreaking. Continue.
00:29:18:19 - 00:29:43:12
Speaker 2
But what you had said, I, struggled with that in our community, especially, the culture, the hip hop culture or anything like that. When my dreams came back to me, I was in that halfway house and it was like, you grew up and it was like you look down on a person. We call them crackheads, we call them fiends, we call them dope heads.
00:29:43:14 - 00:30:00:15
Speaker 2
I grew, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't do my first drug until I was about 27, 28 years old. Before I ever use the drug, I was on the other side of it. I sold stuff, you know what I mean? I did all these things. So when I started using. You have to hide this. This is. You know what I mean?
00:30:00:15 - 00:30:22:22
Speaker 2
Like, you can't be doing this because this is this is frowned upon, and you know what I mean? And, we sell it. We don't use it. So when I went through my process and everything like that, I remember the embarrassment and just hearing the rumors, you know what I mean? Like, I started off the sniffing part and then ultimately, it ended in smoking crack.
00:30:23:00 - 00:30:42:01
Speaker 2
And I just by the time I got to the smoking part, I didn't even care anymore. You know? Like, it was like, this is what it is. You know, I'm just trying. Yeah. You know, it was at that point. But when I. And that halfway house, when, I was putting my life back together, I'm hip hop. And making music has just been a passion of mine.
00:30:42:06 - 00:31:03:04
Speaker 2
And I knew that in this community, in the rap community, it's frowned upon, you know what I mean? Like, it took DMX like, I remember in the song slippin, they, they they just the label bleeped it out in the song slippin when he was talking about smoking crack. I didn't know DMX smoke crack until I was old. I was like, what?
00:31:03:06 - 00:31:23:20
Speaker 2
You know, I was like, oh, but if you was from Yonkers, I used from New York. You know? But I say that like I had to thank God for recovery, understanding this thing. I had to wear my recovery on my sleeve. Any room I go in, anything. And I just I ain't going to be ashamed of it because I'm proud of how far I came.
00:31:23:20 - 00:31:47:01
Speaker 2
I'm not I'm not proud of my mistakes, but I'm proud of how far I came. So I started wearing it on my sleeve. And still to this day, right now, I deal with situations in the industry where it's like, you know, I'm around these amazing people, but some people it's like that stigma is still there. So an opportunity or something like that, or being on Front Street or like that's like, nah, you know what I mean?
00:31:47:01 - 00:31:52:09
Speaker 2
So it is something that we battle with, but you got to wear it on your sleeve. You recover, you got to be proud of it.
00:31:52:10 - 00:32:01:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's like a shield also from people trying to bring you back down, if you don't mind my asking, 27 is late to get started using. What was the moment? What had.
00:32:01:17 - 00:32:02:20
Speaker 2
That choice?
00:32:02:22 - 00:32:05:23
Speaker 1
That choice. But what is that choice?
00:32:06:01 - 00:32:32:21
Speaker 2
Man, I, I was going through I was going through something. So 23rd 2011 when it, when everything happened, I was selling everything under the sun. I don't glorify, you know, if you've been there, you've been there, you know, you know, and I had some stuff in my house and this thing of alcoholism and addiction, it's genetic, you know, it's a disease that goes from family members time.
00:32:32:21 - 00:32:49:12
Speaker 2
It jumps. I'm praying that my kids don't got it right now. But my father had this thing, and my father, he, you know, he I didn't know that. I had no idea what the AA meeting even was back then. But he would go in my room this and that and sometimes, and I would go in my stash and see things disheveled.
00:32:49:12 - 00:33:10:01
Speaker 2
But on this particular day, everything was disheveled, you know, everything was messed up and, you know, and I seen him. I had came back and I seen him and he, you know, he looked kind of crazy. And I was telling him I was like, oh, you didn't mess with those pills because this is when the, fentanyl was first coming out and the pills and I knew, you know what I mean?
00:33:10:01 - 00:33:33:09
Speaker 2
How crazy that was. And I, you know, unfortunately, I left, and I came back and I found my father dead, and. The the guilt and the shame and the remorse. I felt like I took my mother's, my mother's soulmate away. You know, me and my father, we had a rocky relationship, but he was there. He was a provider.
00:33:33:09 - 00:33:54:05
Speaker 2
He used, but he had two Cadillacs, always wore suits. He came from that era where you can function and use. I can't do it, but he did. And, you know, and he died. And that just broke me down so much that I became carefree about everything. Before you know it, I would use gloves to bag up stuff that was just touching stuff and this and that.
00:33:54:10 - 00:34:13:19
Speaker 2
I want to strip clubs, giving girls stuff and this and that. And I found myself on Revere Beach one day, and I did my first line of home dope, you know, and I just didn't care. So that's why, you know, at the age of 27, 28, it brought me there because I just wanted to feel different. Guilt was overwhelming me.
00:34:13:19 - 00:34:19:22
Speaker 2
It was tearing me. It was eating me alive. So I didn't care anymore at that point.
00:34:20:00 - 00:34:21:16
Speaker 1
Wow. Thank you for sharing that.
00:34:21:16 - 00:34:32:23
Speaker 4
Can I ask Erica question? So I wanted to ask, have you ever thought that hip hop is sort of a documentary about mental illness in the hood?
00:34:33:01 - 00:34:43:18
Speaker 2
It has to be. Now that you say that. Yeah, it has to be right. It has to be. It's like glorifying bad choice and saying it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I guess I could be that. I see that.
00:34:43:20 - 00:35:11:06
Speaker 4
Did you did you know that, Scarface has bipolar or that ODB was schizophrenic? On the 50th anniversary of hip hop a few years back, I actually compiled a social media video hour and a half long about every rapper who had a disability. And there's so many rappers who are very famous, very successful, that have mental illness, physical disabilities, like, you know, Slick Rick, actually eyeglass.
00:35:11:08 - 00:35:31:05
Speaker 4
That's why his perpetual was eyeglass in his eye. I know yeah, the ODB thing was incredible. Like if you read his FBI file, he people called him crazy, but he was not crazy. He was a criminal mastermind. But he did have a, schizophrenia diagnosis before he passed.
00:35:31:07 - 00:35:33:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Wow.
00:35:33:20 - 00:35:41:01
Speaker 1
That's a thank you for bringing that in all, Chris, for you. Do you also. But you drank at 17.
00:35:41:03 - 00:35:42:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, 16.
00:35:42:17 - 00:35:46:01
Speaker 1
Were you drinking at something or drinking to run away from something?
00:35:46:01 - 00:36:11:20
Speaker 3
I mean, quite literally, the only reason I was drinking because everyone else was doing it. I mean, I just, like, literally that was it. And that's the other thing. There's a parallel. I was sitting here thinking like, what's what's similar between, drinking and recovery. And I think one thing is being the only one in the room, and most of the programs and rooms that I'm in, I'm usually one of, if only, you know, the only black person in a room.
00:36:11:22 - 00:36:34:06
Speaker 3
And that was how my my up again. I grew up in the suburbs, a very affluent neighborhood, and I felt like I was the only one. And that's why alcohol seemed like such a way to connect with people. And I just remember having this very, like, vivid feeling of, like, connection, like we had all done this, you know, done this rite of passage.
00:36:34:06 - 00:36:58:21
Speaker 3
And those guys did not feel that. I feel I felt like we had done something amazing. Well, like, we, like, pulled off a heist or, you know, robbed a bank. And they were just like, no, this was just another Tuesday. But for me, I was like, this is how I finally get accepted this high. Finally, you know, become, you know, part part of, that culture, it's very interesting.
00:36:58:21 - 00:37:00:08
Speaker 3
And. Yeah.
00:37:00:10 - 00:37:10:20
Speaker 1
Do you when we met in January, we talked about you starting some, black only AA meetings. Did that happen? No. Okay.
00:37:10:22 - 00:37:30:07
Speaker 3
And it didn't happen because they are exist. So I didn't need to create something that had already existed in there. There are a lot of great, you know, 12 step groups that have, you know, black only meetings. I think that's fantastic. And also, I just feel like there's a lot of.
00:37:30:09 - 00:37:54:23
Speaker 3
A lot that I, I can't, completely live in a world that's comfortable for me. And I love the community that I'm a part of. You know, I'm in other, you know, recovery communities, and I'm a part, and I love those, but I just didn't feel like that was going to solve the issue for me. I don't know, I just felt I felt like it was something that like, there was already a solution.
00:37:55:01 - 00:37:58:22
Speaker 1
Yes. Say more about you can't feel comfortable anywhere.
00:37:58:22 - 00:38:22:11
Speaker 3
Oh, I mean, I just quite literally have to learn to exist in my own skin. Like, that's just that's part of my recovery. Training today is to be who I am, to be who I want to be, and show up the same way in every room. I am so much more comfortable. And rooms where we all look alike.
00:38:22:13 - 00:38:41:16
Speaker 3
I went to Kenya, two years ago. It was amazing. It was the first time in my life I never, like, saw a cop and didn't flinch. It's the first time. First time in my life. So it is. There is something about being around people who look like you. But I also know that that's not the entire world.
00:38:41:16 - 00:38:58:17
Speaker 3
And so, I don't know, just doing this for 18 years, I've just learned, like part of part of my growth and development is accepting, that what I must be is consistent. No matter what room I'm in, no matter where I'm at, no matter who I'm talking to. I'm going be. Won't be me.
00:38:58:19 - 00:39:12:19
Speaker 1
All right. Well, thank goodness for that. How about you? Is it. Do you how do you feel about being in recovery meetings that are all black mixed? It's like.
00:39:12:21 - 00:39:42:02
Speaker 2
It's very tricky. I, I, I frequent, CAA meetings for those that's, you know, that's, cocaine Anonymous. I frequent aa, I'm in AA, there's alcohol and, then there's not Comics Anonymous in Boston. I don't know how. It is predominantly around the world, but most of the time when you go to a AA meeting, it's it's, predominantly white Na meeting in Boston.
00:39:42:02 - 00:40:03:03
Speaker 2
I can only speak from where I've been. It's predominantly black. And then you got mixed meetings and you got stuff like that, and I always just wondered why, you know what I mean? And, being in this, in this field and a couple of things have been revealed, you know, the alcoholic, the AA and the old traditions of it, you know what I mean?
00:40:03:03 - 00:40:23:07
Speaker 2
It's just been carried in and it's passed down. It's just like a person that believes in the way that they're raising their family in their household. If if Cousin Stevie or Uncle Mark goes to the AA meeting and they've been doing this for 30 years, it's passed down. It's just all right. So we're going to the AA meeting in Roxbury.
00:40:23:07 - 00:40:48:05
Speaker 2
You know, that would be like the equivalent to Harlem in New York or something like that in Roxbury. If Uncle Jamal's going to the meeting, he's probably going to attend a me. You know, and I've had the experience of going to both and both were necessary in my journey. And I've heard people use the expression, I was telling you this, you know, it's kind of like and there's like public school and a private school, you know, and I was like, what?
00:40:48:07 - 00:41:06:21
Speaker 2
You know what I mean? And that and it was like, okay, I understand what you mean, you know, and I just, I just sought the spiritual solution and you got to weave through it. And from my God and my understanding, the way my recovery is, I just try not to see color. It's there in this problems. And there's things and stigmas and there's judgment.
00:41:06:23 - 00:41:20:03
Speaker 2
But for me, I'm here for a solution. And I got to get help because I'll use again. That's right. You know, if I'm focused on the wrong thing, it is back to that, you know, and I just I never want to go back, you know, so that's that.
00:41:20:05 - 00:41:21:02
Speaker 1
Never going back.
00:41:21:03 - 00:41:46:14
Speaker 3
Yes. But also I think it's important to realize that let's start this whole conversation. Was this idea that that should move be. I shouldn't have to not see color because the Nazi colors did not see who I am, not all of who I am. Right. And I think that is why I, I struggle with 12 step meetings because it is a huge part of, of me.
00:41:46:19 - 00:42:17:14
Speaker 3
Right. 2020 was a big, you know, moment for every everything, right. Everything. But it was it was big in that, you know, here was, this movement that was happening in the world in the midst of a pandemic, you know, post George Floyd, the world was having these conversations and it was something that, as a person in recovery who had over a decade of sobriety at that time and went to that, that that impacted me, that impacted my sobriety and how I saw myself, and I couldn't bring that in.
00:42:17:20 - 00:42:43:17
Speaker 2
In, in support of what you're saying. I think the demographics of the states, I think unfortunately, it plays a big part when you go into Boston, where I'm from in New England, I think recovery is a lot different from the South. And just take the like, let's just take, recovery out of it in the South. The old tradition, I'm old racial ways are still there.
00:42:43:19 - 00:42:54:05
Speaker 2
Because you can be a sober racist. You know what I'm saying. And, and they probably did. Where you at. So I think your experiences are probably a lot different for me.
00:42:54:05 - 00:42:59:17
Speaker 3
So no no, no I feel like it is different is different in California than it is in the in Washington state or in here.
00:42:59:20 - 00:43:00:15
Speaker 2
So I sympathize.
00:43:00:19 - 00:43:03:22
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's all it's all different. Yeah.
00:43:03:22 - 00:43:16:01
Speaker 1
This might be an impossible question, but do you guys feel that you would have gotten healed sober better, faster if you were white?
00:43:16:03 - 00:43:36:15
Speaker 3
Kind of like being black. I kind of like being black. I can, I mean, like, I kind of like being black. I kind of like, like, if I had to do it all over again, I'd still be black, right? Because there's ancestors that live in me, and those ancestors know how to survive. Those ancestors know how to overcome.
00:43:36:15 - 00:43:39:02
Speaker 3
Those ancestors know how to do everything with nothing.
00:43:39:11 - 00:43:41:08
Speaker 4
So. Nah.
00:43:41:10 - 00:43:41:19
Speaker 2
Nah,
00:43:41:19 - 00:43:44:13
Speaker 2
I'm gonna just take his answer. No, no. You go.
00:43:44:15 - 00:43:46:13
Speaker 4
You rap on a, you rap on it.
00:43:46:15 - 00:43:49:21
Speaker 2
Good. You you hit it home.
00:43:49:21 - 00:43:58:10
Speaker 1
Before we open out to the floor. Is there anything you want people in this audience to leave here and do?
00:43:58:12 - 00:44:36:08
Speaker 4
Don't wait till you become disabled or experience substance abuse disorder to care about these issues. You can call your congressman today. Whatever. Whenever you see something, say something. If you witness acts of racism within doctor's office, officers speak up. I think you guys should get involved. You know, donate to mutual aid. Forget all these non-profits. There's always someone on GoFundMe, me trying to pay for their medication, you know, and disabled people are more likely to develop substance abuse disorder just because of the how much being disabled and experiencing discrimination is taxing on the body and mental health.
00:44:36:10 - 00:44:43:12
Speaker 4
And these people often happen to be people of color. So just, you know, support your own. Look at us as we look at you. We're all one.
00:44:43:14 - 00:44:50:04
Speaker 1
Thank you.
00:44:50:06 - 00:45:18:04
Speaker 2
Again, I would say to anybody what I do when I go out in the field, I don't want to say it's natural for anybody, but it's just like, we got this built in judger. If you look, if you look like you haven't showered or you look like you haven't washed or something like that, it's kind of like, you know, but every day I challenge myself to try to help somebody or go out my way.
00:45:18:04 - 00:45:33:17
Speaker 2
At least one person a day, 24 hours, we all get it. It don't take a lot of time out of your 24 hours, and I try to just help somebody that I usually wouldn't help. So I would say to anybody in here, we're all walking in New York. There's a thousand of them out there, you know what I mean?
00:45:33:18 - 00:45:52:09
Speaker 2
Help somebody that you usually wouldn't help. Go out your way. Just, you know what? I'm going to do something because that that that creates something in the universe that starts a cycle. We're doing something that we don't usually do, you know? So, yeah, I would just say help somebody that you would never help. That's what I would say.
00:45:52:13 - 00:45:55:17
Speaker 1
Thank you for.
00:45:55:19 - 00:45:58:16
Speaker 3
I guess kind of a blend of both of those things.
00:45:58:16 - 00:46:25:10
Speaker 3
But the word intersectionality keeps coming up. And I think it's a good, good thing to walk away from this conversation with is recognizing that, we are rarely just one thing. We are usually a multitude of things. And yeah, I think one thing that I would encourage everyone to do is to, learn from and listen to stories of people who may not share your life experience, listen to queer recovery.
00:46:25:10 - 00:46:47:06
Speaker 3
People, listen to disabled recovery. People listen to women in recovery. Listen to trans folks in recovery. Listen to people who grew up in the South. Right. Like I think it's important to just understand that your experience, parallels people. But there's also things that you may not understand. And there's things I don't understand. I really appreciate the educational, disability, disability history.
00:46:47:06 - 00:47:01:15
Speaker 3
That was that was good stuff. And it's just like, I'm not a bad person because I didn't know what. I just didn't know it. Now now I know. And I can think about that the next time that I host an event or do something. I'm thinking about how we can, you know, be more inclusive in that way.
00:47:01:15 - 00:47:06:00
Speaker 3
It's just it's this good stuff, right? Good way to grow as a as a person in recovery.
00:47:06:03 - 00:47:07:10
Speaker 1
As the person.
00:47:07:12 - 00:47:10:18
Speaker 3
Oh. Thank thanks. Thanks.
00:47:10:19 - 00:47:34:14
Speaker 1
So I want to open it up. If anybody has questions or stories you want to share, I invite you to come on up. And while that's happening, I want to point out somebody in the audience who is doing something that is Doctor Theresa Vincent over there. Giveaway of mama. I'm sure it won't be, news to anyone in here that black breast cancer and black prostate cancer are not studied and have not been studied.
00:47:34:14 - 00:47:51:18
Speaker 1
And Theresa is single handedly building a biobank. Thank you. Theresa, if you want to help support her effort, come see her. She's the lovely lady with the blond hair in the red dress. Does anybody have a question for anyone or a story that you want to share? What's your name? Ron. Lonnie.
00:47:51:21 - 00:48:26:16
Speaker 2
Lonnie, everybody, I want to thank all of you. All of you guys. That was amazing. I've been, in recovery since 2013. I had ten years straight sober and I didn't look at sobriety as a color thing. Because, you know, I grew up in Brooklyn. The meetings I went to were all around Brooklyn. All different types of people, all different types of people help me.
00:48:26:18 - 00:49:04:05
Speaker 2
But until 2020, I realized a lot of things. Like, I had a lot of feelings come up, things that I wanted to discuss in meetings and meetings. They tell you, you know. Right. Like somebody said here, no outside issues. You know, this is about staying sober, but, you know, outside issues are the things that make me want to drink and, you know, make me want to speak about things in meetings and it was met with a lot of resistance when you start to speak about.
00:49:04:06 - 00:49:21:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, so many things went on in 2020, you know, racial, you know, things that have been going on forever. But when you speak about it in the meeting, it was like, no, you can't speak about here. And that kind of made me say, excuse my language, but fuck meetings. If I can't speak.
00:49:21:01 - 00:49:22:18
Speaker 3
About this here, then.
00:49:22:20 - 00:49:56:22
Speaker 2
Where can I speak about it? I thought this was like my safe space, and it kind of made me start drifting. And I went out and I started drinking again. Not because of that. I, you know, I drink because I'm an alcoholic. And. But it made me like, all right, maybe this is not the answer. So, you know, I struggle, and I relapsed and I, you know, I would go back to meetings once in a while, but right now, I'm not going to meetings because I just, you know, I'm kind of turned off.
00:49:56:22 - 00:50:27:07
Speaker 2
But listening to these people today, it gives me, like, a kind of new hope. It's not just about meetings. It's. It's about like, connection. You know, whenever you can connect with somebody. Like, I feel very connected right now, with everybody that spoke. So I just wanted to say thank you. And thank you for inviting me to this event.
00:50:27:09 - 00:50:35:16
Speaker 2
Thank you for hosting it. And thank you, everybody for speaking on it. And that's it.
00:50:35:18 - 00:50:36:13
Speaker 1
Thanks so much.
00:50:36:17 - 00:50:43:00
Speaker 1
Mr. bond, Sue Thompson.
00:50:43:02 - 00:50:46:14
Speaker 2
This is very, very interesting room. Cat.
00:50:46:14 - 00:51:19:04
Speaker 2
you for doing this. We really appreciate this. And I notice that the people who are most affected by substance abuse and the disparity in colorism are the least vocal. And I would implore us to actually speak more about our, situations, because if you are colored and you grew up in any, any black city, you are two steps away from alcoholism, substance abuse on any level, right?
00:51:19:04 - 00:51:20:02
Speaker 2
So
00:51:20:02 - 00:51:31:21
Speaker 2
Let's make sure that we are listening more than we are speaking, okay? And we're having empathy because again, at the end of the day, we walk out of here. It's not about color, it's about we are all human.
00:51:31:21 - 00:51:47:07
Speaker 1
The floor is open. Anybody else questions concerns. Stories. Okay. All right. Well. Oh. Miscarrying.
00:51:47:07 - 00:51:51:07
Speaker 1
Okay, my question is for the panelists. If there's someone.
00:51:51:09 - 00:51:57:19
Speaker 4
That you love and who may have an addiction.
00:51:57:19 - 00:52:01:16
Speaker 1
Problem or something that you see.
00:52:01:18 - 00:52:04:06
Speaker 4
Is it I feel that it's.
00:52:04:08 - 00:52:21:05
Speaker 1
My responsibility as someone that loves them to approach them and to say something about it. What do you advise is the best way to go about something like that, without shaming them and making them feel less than in any way?
00:52:21:07 - 00:52:39:11
Speaker 3
I think that's a great question, and I think the right answer is to just say that you support them. You know, I feel like there's, a lot of guilt and shame that comes with substance use, and it's just good to know that you may not have all the answers that no one does. But just to say, like, hey, I'm here for you.
00:52:39:13 - 00:52:50:10
Speaker 3
Whenever you're ready to take that step, I'm here for you. It's amazing how like that. That can be a huge motivator for someone to, like, talk to a professional and get some help.
00:52:52:06 - 00:53:21:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, definitely. That problem. I'll take. I'll walk in the shoes of a person who we can say a closet, crack, smoke, or has a problem or is going through something and trying to cope, but at the same time trying to balance blending in regular society and stuff like that. Because of back to the stigmas and the stuff that we talked about, it's hard to just come out with that.
00:53:21:21 - 00:53:44:05
Speaker 2
First of all, as embarrassing. You know, I, I don't think any black comes out. The wound is just like, this is what I want to do. And whatever's going on to make that happen. And by the time that we notice that there's a problem, that means that the thing's been going on. So by the time we recognize it, things are getting out of you know what it means.
00:53:44:05 - 00:53:55:09
Speaker 2
Step one my life has become unmanageable, you know, so we're recognizing the unmanaged ability. And it's a time and place for everything and is a way to word things and sound loving
00:53:55:09 - 00:54:02:02
Speaker 2
insincere. But at the same time, this ain't nothing to play with no more because people are dying.
00:54:02:02 - 00:54:11:00
Speaker 1
right, so exit Fame is going to perform a song for us, utilizing all the musical back up, the reentry band and street like boutique on the
00:54:11:00 - 00:54:28:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. See? Yeah. Late for the party. At least I thought I was ironic. I went to blow when I caught a bus. And not from music name. So I've been drug abusing me. If it took me out my head, you bet the rent I. It was a good thing this rappers got this thing clean is cool.
00:54:28:10 - 00:54:48:04
Speaker 2
Same thing. And don't piss in there. I must have been a fool. I slowly graduated, started selling dope, now turned into my best customer. Puppy told me slow down gradually. Quick return to a rental. The rental to a bus pass. And I never had enough cash. Then I started robbing and stealing was hit. And everything I would use just to feel normal and wouldn't feel a thing.
00:54:48:04 - 00:55:07:00
Speaker 2
Eventually it got worse was sneaking in my mom's purse, even hit my daughter's piggy bank. It made my heart her childhood friendships. I'm flushing down the toilet in the meat escape, the state that American alcoholic drug addict and I recall it early Saturday morning. My dad stuck into my stash and he died without a warning. The straw that broke the camel's back.
00:55:07:04 - 00:55:30:01
Speaker 2
See, I couldn't handle that. You ate me alive, I felt alive, I first told crack. Imagine that. A comma tax. You allow your pregnant girlfriend to go and play on that detox. And of course, she's made it. Make my soul break rotten teeth. I can see my skull that my old face. Forgive me, God, I'm begging for a way out I know I said all these things before I was in a wall.
00:55:30:05 - 00:55:48:06
Speaker 2
Knocking on the devil's door. Seen his face in the crack smoke bubble I ask for more like DMX. I was slipping and falling. I finally understood when he said It is Calvin, but God answer me, I will never stand a chance. That one more six years clean. I feel like God is standing me man. And that's my story man.
00:55:48:06 - 00:55:55:09
Speaker 2
My name is Eric. I'm out. The harder they call the exit fame. Make some noise for the man. Cry. Yeah, yeah.
00:55:55:09 - 00:56:04:04
Speaker 2
That does it for another episode of Soberness. Thank you so much for tuning in. Listen, we love making this show for you, but now we need you to do something for us.
00:56:04:04 - 00:56:40:17
Speaker 2
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